Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About The Delphian School
Local Matters with Ken Moore
Ken: Hi welcome to the show. Today I have with me a man that I think many of you know and
you'll be delighted to hear from him and if you don't know him you'll be
curious to find out more about what he is about. It’s Mark Segal, he's the
head.. assistant Headmaster at the Delphian School and he's with us today to
give us a look into Delphian School and also the education system that you use
there.
Mark: Right!
Ken: So, Mark let’s start with a little history of the school.
Mark: Sure!
Ken: That's that incredibly interesting edifice out there on the side of
the hill in Sheridan.
Mark: Sure, well it was a Jesuit novitiate and nonprofit, we formed the Delphian
School 1974 and we opened the program in 1976. So, well over 40 years and yes
I've been there for 44 years of it, going on 45.
Ken: Well congratulations!
Mark: Thank you!
Ken: You’ve seen it change a lot. What are some things that come to mind
about how it's changed?
Mark: Oh my gosh! The facility was quite old as you can imagine built in
the twenties and then in the thirties, so a lot of remodeling. It wasn't...
it's got great bones but it really wasn't built as a K through 12 facility so
we've done a lot of remodeling: put in music rooms, classrooms, offices, narrowed
the wide hall... narrowed the wide halls to make more use of the building,
put in a nice lower school. And, as I’m probably going to say continually, we
invite people out for a tour, we love to have people out and I'll give them a
free lunch because we want to let people know what we're doing.
Ken: Well I was on that that tour just was it last week and starting
with the one of the high points, the lunch was incredible! (Laughs). The
cafeteria is wonderful, the food there was so many choices, and it was all good.
But, what I was impressed with… I want to say two things when I walked in the
art that the students have done hanging on the walls was absolutely
inspirational. I just felt like this this is… it’s just you're so lucky to have
that in your living room cause...that’s another thing I got from that visit, it
was a very intimate visit, a boarding school, that’s where people live and and
work and learn and I really enjoyed that opportunity and you were so generous
with your time and it is... people will call up they can schedule to come and
do that.
Mark: Absolutely! We’re open for tours all the time, not just for
enrollment, but to know for example employers want to know so that when they’re
trying to woo people to the area, we’re one of the educational options for
them, for community service. If nonprofits are looking for a place to have
meetings, we have Larson Hall (named after our founding Headmaster) which we
make available. And later this month, Oregon Department of Ed is going to be
using our boardroom for the day for a meeting of an important task force so any
reason people want to come out and find out more about our program, we welcome
them.
Ken: I have a friend who was consider... is considering putting her son
into Delphian School and she told her mother about that and her mother said:
“Delphian School, whatl?!!” you know it was a very foreign idea to her. And so
the grandmother, the mother..they went out to take a tour and by the time it
was over, the grandmother was saying to her daughter it's not if you can do
that with my grandchild, it's like how we how we going to do it?
Mark: Mm-hmm!
Ken: So it’s just that one visit was a miracle to them to see what you
have there. Let me just ask about the connection with Scientology, Ron L.
Hubbard.. tell us about that.
Mark: Sure, well it's simple: many of us got exposed to the study methods he
developed. Of course he founded the Church of Scientology, he's an author
and a screenwriter and this was a separate sub study he undertook - the
field of study. When I got exposed to it, I said boy I wish I'd had this
available. And when I got a chance to put it into a secular setting for
children of all religions, because algebra is not a religious subject but if
you could teach it so we could all master it; I love math, and I hate hearing
that kids don't like algebra. And it's from some of the basic principles he
distilled, which make so much common sense but we just don't teach students how
to study, how to learn and so that's a simplicity, we use his study approach.
Ken: And I got a tour by one of your, I guess she’s going to be a junior
next year.
Mark: Mm-hmm!
Ken: She was amazing. She was so knowledgeable and personable and I felt
like I just got a great understanding what was going on there and I learned the
three basic tenets of Ronald Hubbard’s education.
Mark: Sure, L. Ron Hubbard, one of the things he did is gave students
some tools, and one is: don't go pass words you don't understand. We all buy
our graduates dictionaries, but did they use them? and particularly there's
definitions they might think they know a word and there might ba a definition
that they don't know. Very common when you read about checks and balances...
checks isn't the check off or to look it means to stop; like when you check
your wheels when you're changing a tire. So, clearing that up and fully looking
it up in a dictionary will really help a student to understand American
system of government. And another one of course is don't step skip a step in
your study; to master each step before going on and of course studying with the
thing itself is very important and in some ways if we can get the real thing or
a substitute so often when I was in the upper school, and I headed the upper
school for many years, we’d take the students out and open up a car engine or
go look at leaves or whatever they might be studying. We want them to study the
real world, not just out of textbooks. And so these are tools we give students
at various levels as they move through our program so that they can improve
their studies. Because, after all, studying is not to pass a test, studying is
to get information you can use that you can apply and that's our whole
approach. That's what Mr. Hubbard gave to us and so we use it, as I said, with
children of all races and religions. And it's interesting to see students all
over the world for the first time realize I'm not trying to pass a test this is
interesting, this is fun! It’s fun to argue about Shakespeare or to do a
science experiment and really understand what's going on in the world.
Ken: And you say international, I met kids from a lot of different
countries, (Mark: oh yeah) a lot of different states. Tell us about how did
that contribute?
Mark: Oh, well is part of our philosophy, really, to get as many
different students into the population. Expose students to the culture that
they're going to be living in you know. Thomas Friedman wrote the book “The
World is Flat”, I think he's wrong I think it's hyper-connected, it’s some sort
of geometric shape, because our students are going to be dealing
internationally. A student who just graduated wants help on his.. on
letters of recommendation, so we're going to Skype and he's going to be in Asia
somewhere and the fact we can do that these days and that we have so many
trading partners, we just think it's vital in their education. Many alumni have
told us that one of the things they liked was the fact they got to meet
students from other countries and other cultures; makes you think about what
you're doing. For example in Mexico they don't teach physical education, the
students join soccer clubs, and it’s just oh, education can be different,
culture can be different. What do schools do and not do, what are the
rules? And it helps our students who
understand American government, tell you that’s not how our government works or
elections, things like that. But of course we do try to instill with them some
American cultural values. I think that's why they come: is to understand
democracy, freedom of speech, freed and open inquiry. Cause many don't enjoy
that in all of their countries and I don't want to go too much into depth but I
think you know what I'm talking about. Some some countries don't have the
freedom of speech that we do and so we want them not to believe what we
believe, we want them to form their own opinions, so we have a lot of debates.
I’m sort of in charge of the Current Events Program and I bring a wide range of
guest speakers and I start up a lot of lively discussion shall we say and of
course halfway through I’ll switch sides and start arguing for the other
side, and often they’ll say I don’t know what Mark thinks, you know? Which is a
really good sign I think.
Ken: As I was being led on the tour down into the the lower levels where
there is a the art room, the ceramics room, the woodworking room, the
arts, the crafts, the the technology is so… you even have a 3D printer.
Mark: Oh sure, I think more than one!
Ken: So, it’s an amazing facility. But, during this tour, a young girl
came up and looked up at me and said: “Questions?” and I didn't know what she
was talking about. Can you explain what that might have been?
Mark: I wasn't there, but I think people want to answer any questions
that you might have had.
Ken: Well, no, the person that gave me the tour said that she has a list
of questions that she's supposed to ask people. Is that a program?
Mark: Oh, during the Summer program, we teach English as a Second
Language as part of our camp. We have students who come to us to learn English.
And so part of what they get to do is have a little list of questions they can
ask you: Do you have a dog? What’s your dog's name? What's your favorite
color? So, she must have been very early
in the program and her first word would be questions and if you said yes then she would
read from this. Because we don’t want them to just learn it on paper. One of
the weaknesses of teaching a second languages in other cultures is not having
native speakers. So it's mostly reading and writing and of course you want to
master the talking so that was the first step. I bet that she had little piece
of paper and a pencil.
Ken: Yes she did.
Mark: And if you had said yes then they would have said: What’s your
favorite candy? What's your favorite
fast-food? things like that.
Ken: So, English Second Language is a big part… a large part of your
your curriculum there when people come from a foreign place.
Mark: Not during the school year. During the school year, because we are
an English-language school, we offer a regular program but we will supplement it
for students (International students). All students who come to us, let’s say
the Upper School, the first thing we do is do a very rapidly some diagnostic
work to find out where they are and because we're proficiency-based we'd want
to fill in all the holes before they start our program proper and we call that
an entry program and International students will get an international entry program
helpful in their language and also culturally. Many for example do well at math
but the symbols we use you might see some cultures make the 7 with a line
through it and so they might not be familiar with the language we use to
describe equations and so forth. So, the simple answer is that we are able with
an integrated K through 12 curriculum to help students from around the world
get a good English language based, very high level, high standard education.
Ken: And I got into the science room and I met the science teacher.
Mark: Oh, sure Marty Shaw.
Ken: Yeah, Marty
Mark: The crazy since guy.
Ken: Yeah, he was one… delightfully crazy. He said my job here is mostly
to help kids get unstuck.
Mark: Yup!
Ken: And that was his description and all around the room was all kinds
of… he got a laser pointer. He likes to point at things with his laser pointer,
and he had some physics magic to show me and it was just intriguing and kids
were involved in their project but coming up to ask questions. So let's get
into it: Proficiency Learning:
Mark: Sure!
Ken: That’s a simple word but it's a big subject.
Mark: Sure! Well the two elements that I can distill for you about the
program: one is, we want students to master and become proficient each step
before going on. So, and the other one is project-based learning. So, on the
proficiency side, what we mean by that is we're not studying to pass a test, we
studying so you can apply the knowledge. Sal Kahn of the Kahn Academy just dis
a video called Let’s Teach for Mastery Not Tests because even if you take a
test and you get a 95% and go on if you test on Friday and go on on Monday that
for 5% can come back and hurt you because when you later level, oops I didn’t
master that. And also if somebody didn’t tell you what part you got wrong, you
might have it backwards and thought that was correct. So, we use course… we
don't teach by the lecture method, students study on their own. Now I must say,
at this point, your listeners, your viewers, I hope they come and see what I'm
talking about because I don't think I can describe it very well. But they have
a course materials and a check sheet (a study guide) that they follow which
balances the theory and the practical so they master each step. And what Marty
might have seen in the lab is a student who’s read about some atoms but doesn't
feel they fit together so he has atomic models or he'll work with clay or was Styrofoam
and toothpicks so they: “Oh , that’s where the atoms match up, that’s a bond.
And so we always want them to say: If
you don't get it, go down to the lab. He's also got the fabric book because
they'll read The House on the Prairie about burlap or a material, and students
don't know what they're talking about. What would be scratchy, what would be
soft, what wouldn’t iron. So, they get to do that, they see coins, they see
metals because how else are we going to learn about the world but as we come up
with these questions get chances. So, his is more than a lab; it’s a resource
center. And it's a lot of fun to go in there because he also wants to stimulate
their thinking. And he’s got a great set of different projects, and he’s always
got some sort of puzzling science thing. What do you think will happen? Oops it
didn't do that. Why not? What’s really going on what's the science involved?
Ken: Well Bernie you and I met at the Chamber Commerce.
Mark: I’m Mark!
(Both Laugh)
Ken: There is a Bernie Siegel out there somewhere.
Mark: Yes
Ken: Mark, You and I met at “Chamber”, Chamber of Commerce and I got to
know each other there and sometimes people come with you from Delphian School
and I and I was talking to one of the people that came with you and I said what…
what's a good tagline for The Delphian School because I was about to reveal my
Delphian T-Shirt that I had borrowed, and she said: ”The only passing grade is
100%”.
Mark: That’s a truth
Ken: That’s just what you were talking about…
Mark: Yes
Ken: …with the proficiency learning.
Mark: Yeah, and the way it works is, literally, if a student misses
anything on a on a quiz at the end, and again it's not to do any more than to
help the student in sure they got it all. Cause we are all very willing to say:
“Did I get it?” Have I got this right? You want to have somebody check it. Anything
that they miss, they restudy and we do that very willingly. Students never
study for tests in our place, because every course ends with a final practical
activity to culminate everything they've done and they just want to go in to
sort of validate that. Cause they don't want to go thinking they might have
confused carbon and zinc or what other confusion they might have. So, really,
very cooperatively, they get an examination and then the examiner person doing
it will say oops you missed this, let’s talk a little bit more. Ok, let’s have
you restudy those parts and make sure you’ve got it. And it’s a smiling face
activity. I should say that we keep track of this and well over 50% of the
students get a hundred percent on the examination because it's very practically
oriented: “here, can you do this?” On multiple choice questions, which we don't
ever give, you could guess! It's the worst kind of testing cause you test the
easy stuff, not the stuff you need. And in fact I hate to say it but when you
go take a driver's test guess what you take the theory and then they put you
behind the wheel, and all of our tests have a “behind the wheel” component. “Can you apply it? Show
me!” And, If you miss, we’ll just restudy. The examiner doesn't say “you'll
never drive” but he says here's you did know how to do a left turn or parallel
parking; go work on that! Cause we all want to have safe drivers. What drives
me crazy, is that we give everyone a , cause we don’t know what they don’t
know. I want my doctors to know every
disease, you know? and so my real pitch
please if we could do one thing to change education take Student Competition
out against each other let's have them compete against ignorance and that's how
I like to see our whole system shifted over. Again, and in proficiency,
everybody can master the material. Don’t you want everybody to hammer well, to
plumb well, to to be a good electrician? Why would we ask for anything less?
Ken: Look, Mark, it sounds great! I particularly like that part about
not studying for tests, but the river is going to meet the road when you go
take the SAT, right? Or wouldn’t you…?
Mark: You knew you were going to get me started, didn’t you?
Ken: So, how do your students come up against SATs or ACTs or these
tests with multiple choices?
Mark: Ok, I’ll calm down.
Ken: No! It’s.
Mark: Sure. I get worked up. I personally think that students spend too
much time preparing for the SAT and ACT. I don’t like them at all. I think that
they are flawed beyond recognition. At fairtest.org you can find over a
thousand colleges that don't want to see SAT or ACT tests. The University of
Chicago just announced: they are not going to look at it anymore. So we're
getting a big crack in that egg. Then there's been rumors of lots of other
colleges wanting to get rid of it.
Ken: Well that's a relief because that SAT score just follows you
around; it's almost like it'll be on your tombstone, it's, it's just like it's
you! And taking that off and getting more to proficiency learning, which I
think more and more of the country is starting to acknowledge.
Mark: Absolutely! Absolutely! And just on SAT and ACT, we do take
students to take it, they can study it
on their own. But, it’s just sort of my personal opinion and I make it pretty
well known because, on that, I much rather have students work for Habitat for
Humanity over the summer than rather some students who spend the whole summer studying
the SAT and I think if they said that to the college: “Listen I worked for
Habitat for Humanity all summer, instead of studying the SAT, because that’s
not knowledge, that’s not useful! But I recognize some people do it and I try
to help em out to reduce that anxiety about it. But you're going to ask me
another question.
Ken: Well I just wanted you to.. you coined the phrase probably.. “Sage”
how does it go?
Mark: Oh, the Sage.. Yes, one of the changes we're not the only school doing
proficiency, we were just we think the first because I haven’t found anyone
else and because we have so many visitors from other schools that want to see
how we do when we're doing, but this shift generally in proficiency,
competency, mastery, whatever you want to call it, is “moving the teacher from the
sage on the stage to the guide on the side”. Which we've been doing, we've
never had lectures. We just don't believe in them because it believes that
every student is grasping each and every thing you are saying is teachable
moments.
Ken: Ah, all together is probably…
Mark: It’s probably not true of McMinville but, or elsewhere in the
country, I know students who get hungry, who get emotional, who have their
feelings hurt, girlfriend, boyfriend whatever; they're worried about the big
game, the drama part. And they're not all present and some are physically
absent. So why we lecture and move on instead of devising a system where each
student can move and master his own pace? It was not uncommon for me to rejoice in the
following: the student would say “Mark yesterday I studied a section of my
course, can I go back and restudy it? I don't think I got it all” Yes, it's for
you! That makes me so happy because if
you were working on something on your house out of a book and you say “I don’t
quite know how to do this yet”, you would say I’m going to look it over again
in the morning. “What am I not getting here?” before you go cutting or scraping
or hammering right?
Ken: Well Mark you are so generous with you time, you spoke to our
rotary Sunrise Rotary Club this morning and you said something there that I
want you to reiterate about a constant, “Time is a consdtant”. How did that go?
Mark: Sure! In the proficiency movement we say: well I’m old, I'm older
than you, I hope. But when we went to school, it was a 50-minute class, hundred
eighty days, and time was the constant and learning varied. I remember students
in my classes who just weren’t getting it at all in my high school back in the
60s. So, what we've said from day one, we're turning that around, we want
learning to be the constant and time is the variable. And I found at schools of
using proficiency all around the country: from Chugach Alaska to the Adams
Westminster School District in Colorado to Lindsay California, these schools
have turned things around because the student’s what’s important, and if the
student is important, their mastery is important! So, the simplicity is: “old
school, time was the constant, new school learning is the constant. And that's
what we've been about since day one. And not just learning in the classroom,
but learning about life. You know?
Ken: So, I can break that down a little bit. So, learning isn't going to happen on a time
schedule it's how you learn kind of irrelevant to how long it takes?
Mark: That’s right!
Ken: And if people are focused and motivated they're going to get it.
Mark: Yep
Ken: But you’ve got to make sure they got it before...
Mark: That’s right!
Ken: …before time moves you into something else.
Mark: And what’s interesting, if, if your viewers go to YourMD at OHSU
you'll find that the Oregon Health and Science University has switched over to
a competency-based program. And in an interview I read, I think it was the
dean, just a few days ago, said that we might have a student who’s served as a
medic in Afghanistan and doesn't need some of these anatomy classes, they've
got the real world experience! Other ones who come from more theoretical
backgrounds may need more, so they're customizing each student’s program. One thing
that touched me was I got the idea that the faster you can get a student out
with competency into the medical world, less debt, more they can go to serve
underserved populations. How exciting is that?!
But it’s emerging in our system of higher Ed: Linda Shaw the president
Southern Oregon University was recently did a webinar with knowledge works at
proficiency-based National Group and they were talking about switching to what
they call “competency-based education”. The same thing warning the colleges that
don't switch over… people aren't going to sit through 4 years of a lecture 3
days a week stretching it out. They want more rapidly paced information they
can use.
Ken: To reiterate what they said, if they can reach competency in a
shorter amount of time, then it's costing less, they have less student debt,
they don't have to they can go maybe contribute to the world in the way that
they don't have to tie themselves into a path that demands they have a certain
amount of money to pay off this student debt. So they have more choice to do to
do to community, jobs that do well for the community.
Mark: Endless possibilities, I don't think the school dictates that. But
it frees up the resources of the teaching faculty to give those that need the
help. Because we want them all to be proficient and maybe they can get since we
have a critical shortage of medical, right? Maybe they can get more students
through, if they're not all doing for years. One thing you're going to have to
ask yourself is why do we call it a 4-year college degree? Where did it decree
that part of the right of passage is 4 years of institution, because we don't
do that in Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Cub Scouts, we don't do that in music. You
master a piece and move on. If you're going to learn a martial art, your master
it and move on. They don't say you got a one-year belt or some… Right?
Ken: Yeah
Mark: It’s a belt that determines mastery.
Ken: Those are great analogies!
Mark:I’m wound up!
Ken: Yeah, merit badges, boom boom, some kids just grab and go and it
doesn't it doesn't have to take a certain amount of time as how much they can
how they can how fast they can become proficient.
Mark: Right! And they love it, to know that in a subject that’s
difficult for them, they can slow down, get help, take their time. And if they're
getting it, they can zoom along and nothing's better than watching a student
who’s zooming along, smiling and getting it. Recently we had guests that said:
“Mark, we’ve seen hard working students and we’ve seen happy students; we've never
seen it in the same student!” You know?
(Both Laugh)
Ken: Now, tell people a little bit about some of the boards that you
serve on.
Mark: Sure!
Ken: How do they contribute to the education field. You're not just
sitting out there and Sheridan…
Mark: No!
Ken: …out behind your desk waiting for kids to come ask you questions.
You are all over the country. Tell us about it.
Mark: Ah yea. Well, I head up the Oregon Federation of Independent
Schools and I've actually been doing that since 1988-89 and I represent Oregon in
legislature in the teacher’s standards and practices. Work… we have a great
relationship with the Department of Education we now have a working private
education committee. Since 1994, I've been on the board of the Council of
American private education for 12 years representing the very State
organizations like mine and then just cause I'm sort of keeping at it, they
made me a “member-at-large” so that that is the that is the national Private School
Organization that has the Catholics, the Episcopal Schools, the Lutheran
Schools, Seventh-day Adventist Schools, Montessori and Waldorf - all those
schools. And we meet in Washington DC. So that takes me to Congress, the White
House to the Department of Ed. Last year I was the only private school leader
on the panel on the new “Every Student Succeeds Act” which has a private school
ombudsman, so I do that. Then, if I flip another switch, because I'm a
proficiency advocate, I go around the country speaking to private school groups
primarily, about... I want them to switch to competency as fast as they can
because it's not a public-private problem it's an old operating system, we got “rotary
phone schools” in a “smartphone world”. And so, next Monday through Thursday
I'll be attending the Seventh-day Adventist educators. Every six years I have a
conference. This year is in Chicago, and I'm doing three major presentations
there on switching to proficiency and then I'll be offering workshops, meeting
with educators. Marty arranged that; including the nearby University. They want
to talk about switching their teachers Ed program. It’s really a hot item, because
all around the country schools, and school districts and whole states are
switching to proficiency or competency. It's rapidly growing and so I just get
excited about it because that means more students that are well-educated were
engaged and that's slips away from the bad behavior thing when students are
engaged. Right?
Ken: Mmm
Mark: When when they're coming to class and having fun why are they
going to have fights or do the crazy stuff?
Ken: Tell us about how you’ve… are interfacing with our local public
schools.
Mark: Oh! It's interesting. I've met with Mary Alice regularly over the
years and we have good arguments and discussions and try to help out. I chair
the the the Chamber of Commerce's Business Ed Partnership Committee. In the
West Valley I formed up a group with with their meaning. We meet with… it’s
Sheridan to school district, Willamina School District, Confederated Tribes of
Grand Ronde, Head Start, librarians, local leaders; and we meet every month if there's
enough of us want to meet, we rotate the meetings between Sheridan, the Tribe
and The Delphian School. And we have great discussions about what we can do to
improve education. We have a lot of tutoring going on, particularly in
Willamina. And we work with smart… our students go down and “Start Making a Reader Today” program and do pull out
tutoring; all kinds of work we've had, particularly down in Willamina that just has worked out well for us.
And then, I chair the McMinnville Leadership, McMinville Leadership committee
that came out of my Chamber chairmanship in 2007. So, we are doing a lot!
Ken: That is a lot of reach! We just got about a minute left. You
brought some pictures. Why don’t we just flip through those?
Mark: Sure!
Ken: Carolyn, can you pull those up? All right, there’s the nice…
Mark: Main building!
Ken: Yep.
Mark: Probably pictures of kids.
Ken: What’s next Carolyn? There you go
Mark: We have a great lower school, we cater to the local population.
Ken: Mostly kids of instructors.
Mark: Yeah, it’s a mix, it’s a mix
Ken: And from local kids.
Mark: Oh Absolutely! We have a bus that comes from McMinnville takes
kids in in the morning and their parents pick them up at various times in the
afternoon.
Ken: Alright Carol, just go ahead and go through these.
Mark: Sure if you could just look at these we have a totally rehabilitated
Gym, that’s the second floor running track.
Ken: There’s the Delphian Dragon.
Mark: Absolutely! and you Ken, I want to make sure…
Ken: Climbing wall.
Mark: …the viewers know that they’re welcome to come for…
Ken: Yeah
Mark: …a free tour and a free lunch any time, because I don't think my
words have quite captured all that the Delphian School spirit is about.
Ken: And they’ve got to go into the chapel and the reaction is often the
same probably: “Hey this looks like Hogwarts”.
(laughs)
Mark: very, very common.
Ken: It’s very cool!
Mark: very common.
Ken: Thanks so much for being here Mark!
Mark: Oh my pleasure
Ken: It’s been a great tour. And, again, call up The Delphian School and
get a tour!
Mark: Absolutely! Please do!
